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About "The Patron Saint of Liars"

Beth: Saw your "Patron Saint of Liars" movie. That was a really good part for you. Were you pleased with the way it turned out?

Clancy Brown: Yes and no... I don't know if you read the book...

Beth: Sure did!

Clancy: Oh, man, I LOVE that book! I really like her [Ann Patchett] as a writer. I can't tell you how much I like her as a writer! And I was really sort of disappointed that they didn't do the book. But I have to admit that I read the script before I read the book, and I thought "This is a good enough script, and this is not your average movie of the week fare. It might be interesting. So, if this is gonna be done, I'd like to do it. It's just off-center enough for me." Then I read the book and I thought, "Oh, jeez...!"

Beth: So much isn't going to be in there!

Clancy: That's right! So I always have to remind myself how much I liked the original, my introduction to it, instead of think about "what could have been" with how the book would be reinterpreted.

Beth: I don't know how they could have done it, though, just the way it was written.

Clancy: Yeah, I think the way to do it would have meant that I wouldn't have been in it.

Beth: Why is that?

Clancy: It's Son's story, cuz his is the longest story in there, in terms of years. And it's his redemption finally at the end, through the daughter -- by having a love, losing it, having another love, losing it, and determining never to lose the love of his daughter -- in spite of all the reasons why he could. And then, of course, being honest and all the rest... So he's actually the character that ends up growing the most and facing... I think, anyway. But then that would have been a different script that probably wouldn't have gotten made, and if it did get made, it certainly wouldn't have gotten made with me.

Beth: That's the only book I think I've read in a long time that actually made me cry. It just tore me up...

Clancy: Yeah, it was terrific, really terrific. But I think the problem was what they added on to it. It sort of worked up until the time that she turned around and came back. I thought it worked in a very strange way.

Beth: Although I've talked to a lot of people who've just seen it, who just "don't get" Rose.

Clancy: Of course not...

Beth: They don't get her, but it's like "I don't think you're supposed to... I don't think you can."

Clancy: But I thought Dana [Delaney] did a terrific job. I thought she was really brave to do the role, and I thought she was terrific in it. That's a tough character.

Beth: Oh yeah, she's tough to love.

Clancy: They could have done better, but I think, overall, especially where she's concerned... I think she really gave you the character that's in the book, without any apology.

Beth: Yeah, because that character IS tough to love, and it's kind of a thankless character to play. She did a good job.

Clancy: Right.

About "The Agency", a.k.a. "In the Company of Spies"

Beth: What can you tell us about your new movie for Showtime? Are you a good guy or a bad guy?

Clancy: I'm a good guy! And it's a Showtime movie which means they have no money and no time. It was a pretty good script about the CIA, called "The Agency". It opens up with a fella who's undercover in North Korea, and he gets taken in by the K.I.S., which is the Korean Internal Security, or something like that. Which I thought was kinda neat, since they called it "KIS". I don't know if that's real or if that's made up. Anyway, he gets arrested and accused of being an American spy, which of course, he IS.

Beth: Now, is this you or is this someone else?

Clancy: No this is someone else, a Canadian actor named Carl... something... I can't remember, but a very nice guy. Anyway, he's arrested and, of course, refuses to break his cover. But as soon as he's arrested, all the machinery starts in at Langley or MacLean, Virginia, or wherever the CIA place is. And they decide to bring in an ex-agent, someone who quit in a pique of politic or some indignence, or whatever the right thing you quit the agency for is...and that's Tom Berenger.

Beth: Oh, Tom again? Cool!

Clancy: Yep, Tom again. So Tom comes in... Tom is approached by the director of the CIA who is Ron Silver...

Beth: Also again... This was just a reunion thing for you, wasn't it?

Clancy: Right! Sorta for me, not for them! But at least they had something to talk about in between takes... about what an asshole Clancy is.

Anyway, so the director recruits him to come back and to run the operation to retrieve this agent, and to find out the information that he found out -- the human intelligence he had gathered. Which they determined must have been fairly urgent for the Koreans to make that move, and so on and so forth. So Tom comes in with the condition that he put together his own team, which is a team of a bunch of old timers, people that he's comfortable with. That includes me and Alice Krige...

Beth: And you've done something before with Alice Krige, too!

Clancy: That's right!

Beth: Okay! You are gonna slip me up yet!

Clancy: Well, and I don't remember the rest of 'em, because, ya know, I stopped there. I said, okay, like this is WAY too familiar now.

Beth: Really, that's weird...

Clancy: It was fun, though. It was fun. So anyway, I play a guy who was good friends with the agent who was arrested, and good friends with Tom Berenger. We were all kids together during Viet Nam, apparently, and had come up through the agency and had run all sorts of operations together. My specialty is deep cover stuff -- human intelligence over enemy lines. But THAT has been pretty much put aside for the technological intelligence that you can gather from satellites, so I've been put out to pasture, in a way, by being an instructor at this CIA school. And I just collect a paycheck, and I teach people how to drive fast and safely, and how to mark and surveil your tail, and stuff like that -- all the stuff, all the spy craft that they consider antique but necessary. But of course, I'm an old warrior, so this does not fulfill me, and I've taken to drinking. So I'm sort of this pathetic drunken character in the shotgun seat of a car with a couple of teenage agents, you know, teaching them how to do the right thing.

Beth: So did they have to cut off all your hair and make you look like the "straight arrow"? Or do you get to be a little...?

Clancy: A straight arrow, but very ruffled, very sort of rumpled. So Tom comes in and says we've got this situation, and eventually through all sorts of goof-ups... I mean, even though I'm stumbling all over myself, pissing off the powers that be, they insert me into Korea as a British banker.

Beth: Do you know when it's supposed to be out?

Clancy: I would imagine in the fall, I'm not really sure. [ Note: First air date: October 24, 1999, a year later.]

Beth: And they're calling it "The Agency".

Clancy: Well, they're calling it "The Agency" right now. It's got that sort of Tom Clancy thing about it. But it's really sort of the Tom Clancy stuff "on the cheap". On the CHEAP! You know, a lot of people leaning over desks and looking at spy satellite photography, a lot of roleplaying. I really get to do the fun stuff because I get to pretend I'm in Korea, talking to Koreans in a stuffy British accent. So it's a lot of fun for me! I had a good time doing it.

It was good seeing Tom again, and I didn't see Ron, but I did see Alice. She's adorable. I haven't seen Ron, but it was a good little reunion with Tom. It's only been ten years... And he'd just had a daughter, I think, when we were doing "Shoot to Kill". So it was a little startling. I mean, my first question to him was "How old is your daughter?" And I think she's nine, and I said, "Oh my God! I'm so glad she's not ten! Or I'm much older than I think I am..."

Beth: You were pretty tough on Alice Krige in that "Donor Unknown" movie...

Clancy: Yeah, as I said to Alice, "I'm so glad I'm not brutalizing you." Because she's so sweet and she's so beautiful, in a very off-center way. And she's the nicest lady in the world...a terrific actress. But on the first day there I saw her and I didn't recognize her, and she's waving to me, and I'm thinking, "Huh... Hey! I've still got it!"

Beth: "I'm lookin' good!"

Clancy: Yeah, and I go over, and it's Alice... I think I hid my disappointment that she wasn't anonymous, but actually somebody familiar... But it was good to see her. It's gonna be great.

Zombies, Worms, and a Lame Maine Accent!

Beth: Looks like you guys were having a lot of fun doing "Pet Semetary ll". Do you have fond memories of playing a zombie?

Clancy: Yeah... That was kind of a dumb show...

Beth: But was it fun?

Clancy: When I met the director, Mary Lambert, I thought, "Oh my goodness!" I had just seen "Siesta" and "Siesta" is a great movie, very stylish and very complex, and very sexy. A very good, good movie. And I walked in and I read this script that was kinda... shitty. So I walked in to her and I said, "I got just one question to ask you... Why are YOU doing THIS movie?". And she's this little tiny Arkansas lady -- real tiny, cute thing, and she was pregnant at the time -- and she said, "Well, I need the money. I haven't actually worked since "Siesta", so I really need the money." And I said "Fair enough. So do I." And then she said, "So, ya wanna do it?" And I said, "Just as long as there are no power tools involved..."

Beth: Guess what?

Clancy: I looked at the producer and he went, "Well... as a matter of fact..."

Beth: Can't we have just one?

Clancy: And I went, "Oh, jeez... Okay. Go ahead, do whatever you want..." But, ya know, she was like five, six, seven months pregnant while she was doing it, and Tony was kinda between gigs, and Eddie was the "big star" of the time. And his life was a little too ridiculous... Poor kid. So I just decided, ya know, this is just silly. Let's just have a good time! So Mary and I, or at least I did, I spent most of my time trying to make Mary laugh! We were havin' a good, weird time down there in Georgia -- that's why I affected that LAME Maine accent... And I just decided to goof, cuz I figured nobody would see this! And the people who would see it would just forget it... So, I figured, as long as I look like I'm having a good time, I'LL be forgiven!

Beth: And it did! It looked like you guys were just having a good time!

Clancy: Yeah, we did have a good time. There were really no real ego issues, cuz Tony's a good guy. He met his wife on that show.

Beth: So everything worked out!

Clancy: So we just went nuts!

Beth: You had a pretty good job on that "Outer Limits" episode you did.

Clancy: That was fun!

Beth: That was some make-up...

Clancy: Yeah... That was the same dudes that did "Pet Semetary ll" actually. I gave 'em a hard time, cuz I walked in a few days before we were going to shoot it, and they put this thing on my head, and I said, "C'mon, what are ya doin' here? How did you design this so quick?" And he says, "Well... It's actually recycled from a Taco Bell commercial pitch that we did." So it's like the Fruit Salad Head! The Salad Bar Head is what I called it! We've got an avocado over there, and an anchovie on the other side... there's squash and summer squash... I just kept giving them a hard time -- which I always do with Steve Johnson, cuz he can take it. He should be able to take it. He's doing quite well, and he's very, very talented. But I just kept teasing him, saying, "You've lost it, man. You've lost your creative edge. Now you're just recycling!.. That's the beginning of the end..."

Beth: From TACO commercials, yet!

Clancy: Yeah, from Taco commercials... "Thanks for using first line stuff on me..." He'd take off a piece and I'd say, "Ya sure you don't wanna save this? You might need this for another show." Just really... "Let's recycle the glue." That was just... I was havin' a good time!

Beth: That was some nasty make-up in "Tales From the Crypt", too! Were those REAL worms hanging?

Clancy: Yeah, yeah, they were! They were real sort of, "Can we? Can we put real worms on you?"

Beth: Oh, why not?

Clancy: But "The Outer Limits" was a lot of fun because it was very fast, a very tightly run ship. The director was terrific -- a guy named Mario Azzopardi, who's Maltese/Canadian, I guess -- and a really, really great guy. He actually called me up to do the "Stargate" series, and I couldn't do it, and I havenÕt heard from him since. So I think I pissed him off. But I was really sad about that. He's a great director! A lot of fun!

Keep an eye out for Mario... When we first sat down -- he, of course, hadn't met any of the actors -- he says, "The first thing you have to understand is none of this is real. We're telling a fable. A Grimm's fairy tale. Okay? This has nothing to do with realism. So I don't want to hear any questions about logic, story, that way..." I thought that was BRILLIANT! "We're doing opera!"

Beth: No red flags there... There's not going to be any logic, so don't worry about THAT!

Clancy: Right. "Just, just GO FOR IT! Just do... I'll pull you back, if I need to."

PART II

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